{"id":5285,"date":"2026-07-31T18:06:33","date_gmt":"2026-07-31T18:06:33","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/relocationobserver.com\/?p=5285"},"modified":"2026-07-31T18:06:33","modified_gmt":"2026-07-31T18:06:33","slug":"jon-bernthal-on-his-brotherly-dynamic-with-tom-holland-in-spider-man-and-the-odyssey-and-why-punisher-is-peter-parkers-cautiona","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/relocationobserver.com\/?p=5285","title":{"rendered":"Jon Bernthal on His \u2018Brotherly Dynamic\u2019 With Tom Holland in \u2018Spider-Man\u2019 and \u2018The Odyssey,\u2019 and Why Punisher Is Peter Parker\u2019s \u2018Cautionary Tale\u2019"},"content":{"rendered":"
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\nJon Bernthal and Tom Holland\u2018s superhero trajectory is so intertwined, it could make its own comic book storyline.<\/p>\n

Read more Benny Safdie\u2019s \u2018Lizard Music\u2019 With Dwayne Johnson Adds Newcomer Arya Parvathi (EXCLUSIVE)<\/a><\/p>\n

\n\tIn 2015, on the set of the period drama \u201cPilgrimage,\u201d Bernthal and Holland filmed each other\u2019s audition tapes for their Marvel roles as the Punisher and Spider-Man, respectively. Now, after playing the parts for a decade, they share the screen for the first time in \u201cBrand New Day.\u201d And the Sony\/Marvel movie, which is now playing in theaters, is their second project together in as many weeks, following Christopher Nolan\u2019s \u201cThe Odyssey.\u201d<\/p>\n

\n\t\u201cIt\u2019s great to be able to do two in a row with my friend Tom,\u201d Bernthal tells Variety<\/em>. \u201cIt\u2019s just so beautiful to come full circle.\u201d<\/p>\n

\n\tBernthal took Variety\u2019s<\/em> call while he raced to the airport to finally head back to the west coast after a long tenure in NYC, where he\u2019d starred in \u201cDog Day Afternoon\u201d on Broadway, then did back-to-back press tours for \u201cThe Odyssey\u201d \u2014 where he\u2019d waxed poetic on his character Menelaus\u2019 counsel of Holland\u2019s Telemachus \u2014 and \u201cSpider-Man: Brand New Day\u201d \u2014 where Frank \u201cThe Punisher\u201d Castle becomes Peter Parker\u2019s unlikey confidant, using his life as cautionary tale.<\/p>\n

\n\tLately, life has been blissfully busy for Bernthal: the past few months also saw him star in the massively successful Netflix limited series \u201cHis and Hers\u201d opposite Tessa Thompson; headline the Disney+ special \u201cThe Punisher: One Last Kill,\u201d which he co-wrote with director Reinaldo Marcus Greeen; and wrap up his Emmy-winning role on FX\u2019s \u201cThe Bear,\u201d with a special episode written by him and Ebon Moss-Bachrach titled \u201cGary.\u201d<\/p>\n

\n\t\u201cBeyond anything, I\u2019m just enormously grateful,\u201d Bernthal says. \u201cTo be in New York for this time and doing this play on Broadway, I was very much in touch with that 18-year-old kid who had this dream, that at times seemed sort of impossible and far away,\u201d he continues, referring to his younger self. \u201cI really wanted to honor that kid by doing that play. And when I look at these other projects that I got to have a real hand in creating and writing myself, I\u2019m just so grateful. It\u2019s been a really magical year.\u201d<\/p>\n

\n\tBut when Bernthal was revealed to be joining the cast of \u201cSpider-Man: Brand New Day,\u201d early reports didn\u2019t make too much of the moment.<\/p>\n

\n\tMost stories (including mine) suggested that Mark Ruffalo\u2019s Bruce Banner\/Hulk would slide into the mentor role that\u2019s been a key dynamic in Tom Holland\u2019s previous \u201cSpider-Man\u201d movies, with everyone from Robert Downey Jr.\u2019s Iron Man\/Tony Stark to past Spider-Men Tobey Maguire and Andrew Garfield playing wise sage to Peter Parker.<\/p>\n

\n\tAfter all, Bruce is one of the original Avengers, and until now, Frank has been relegated to Marvel\u2019s TV output \u2014 first in Marvel\u2019s Netflix shows and more recently in \u201cDaredevil: Born Again\u201d and his own standalone special on Disney+. Plus, other Spider-Man characters, like villains Scorpion (Michael Mando) and Tombstone (Marvin Jones III), would also appear.<\/p>\n

\n\tBut it should\u2019ve been obvious that Frank would become Peter\u2019s confidant in \u201cBrand New Day\u201d \u2013 and not just because the anti-hero is a mainstay in the Spider-Man comics. A lot of it comes down to the dynamic between the actors who play them. <\/p>\n

\n\t\u201cJon and Tom have a rapport that would be very difficult to replicate in any scenario, and when the two of them are on screen, I could watch them banter for half an hour,\u201d says \u201cBrand New Day\u201d director Destin Daniel Cretton. \u201cI would just let them go off script, and so many wonderful moments came out of that that ended up in the final cut.\u201d<\/p>\n

\n\tIn \u201cBrand New Day,\u201d Bernthal\u2019s Punisher is still the lethal vigilante fans know and love. His backstory is tragic: the former U.S. Marine\u2019s wife and children are murdered by the mob, leaving him aimless and (justifiably) angry at the world. And, as the Punisher, Frank is known to enact particularly brutal, bloody vengeance. How could that darkness fit into the heretofore brightly colored \u201cSpider-Man\u201d universe?<\/p>\n

\n\t\u201cI was very aware of that and very protective of Frank, and I really want to deliver for the fans and the people that he means so much to,\u201d Bernthal begins. \u201cAnd look, that was really the question. That was really the issue. How tonally would he fit into this world?\u201d<\/p>\n

\n\tBernthal answers that question below and shares more about his \u201cSpider-Man\u201d experience \u2014 including what he thinks is next for the Punisher in the MCU.<\/p>\n

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\n\t\tFans are very excited about getting the Punisher on the big screen for \u201cBrand New Day,\u201d but the last time we saw Frank was in the very R-rated Disney+ special, \u201cOne Last Kill.\u201d What was it like to make him PG-13 for this movie?\t<\/h5>\n

\n\tI was very clear with Destin: we have to believe that he would be able to walk off the set of \u201cOne Last Kill,\u201d and be that same guy walking onto the set of \u201cBrand New Day,\u201d while also honoring that tonally it\u2019s a much different project. I deeply appreciated that Amy Pascal, Destin and Tom Rothman all wanted the exact same thing.<\/p>\n

Read more Sam Fender and Olivia Dean\u2019s \u2018Rein Me In\u2019 Becomes the U.K.\u2019s Longest-Running No. 1 Single of All Time<\/a><\/p>\n

\n\tThey all really respected and wanted his version of Frank that I\u2019ve been delivering over the years. A lot of times in this business, when there\u2019s an issue, or a little bit of a conflict or a problem, something you\u2019re trying to figure out, sometimes the answer is to sort of skirt around it, or to avoid it, or to gloss over it, rather than to dive into it and to really explore it. I feel like we really hit it head on.<\/p>\n

\n\tMy dear friend Colton Hill, who\u2019s a Marine and a Green Beret, who I trained with for years, was on set with me as the Punisher. He was behind the camera every time I was there, and he was so helpful. I was so grateful not only that Destin welcomed that, but he was hungry for it, and they became very good friends. It\u2019s a real testament to the kind of filmmaker Destin is that he really wanted to accomplish both of those things \u2014 preserving Frank and blending him into the tone of this film.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n

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\n\t\tI laughed at Peter shooting a web over Frank\u2019s mouth to stop him from swearing. What did you think when you saw that in the script?\t<\/h5>\n

\n\tWe really leaned a lot on improvisation and finding things on the day. What was great about this project was that you have all kinds of the bells and whistles \u2014 I mean, this is no mystery; this is a huge franchise and the level of artistry and talent is immense and unparalleled \u2014 but at the end of the day there\u2019s a real vigor and vitality in going after the truth of the scene on the day. It was not a strange thing on that set for them to stop things and have the actors and Destin explore and rewrite and find things and get closer to the kernel of the scene, or to explore through improvisation. I was really grateful for that, and I was very pleasantly surprised by it. This is a new lens in which we see Frank, but it\u2019s not a different character. It\u2019s going to preserve what people love about him most.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n

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\n\t\tLet\u2019s talk about how Frank and Peter\u2019s relationship evolves. The movie leans into this idea that, in some ways, Frank is a bit of a cautionary tale for Peter, as he disappears into his work and isolates himself. How did you find that dynamic?\t<\/h5>\n

\n\tTom and I have known each other for a really long time. We have this natural big brother-little brother dynamic. It\u2019s important to always note that Frank is a guy who\u2019s spiraling and reeling from trauma. He\u2019s not looking for any light at the end of the tunnel. He\u2019s not looking to get out of the darkness. He\u2019s looking to dive right into it, and he\u2019s also quite aware that this is no way to live.<\/p>\n

\n\tI\u2019m always interested in characters who build walls around their heart, who reject the outside world. Reject the light. Reject friendship, companionship, love. What I love about those kinds of characters is that\u2019s actually an impossible task for a human being. No matter what wall you build around your heart, there\u2019s got to be little holes for the light to shine through. And Tom\u2019s performance as Spider-Man really is that light.<\/p>\n

\n\tIt\u2019s very clear to Frank the steps that you know Spider-Man is headed [down]; he\u2019s trying to emulate this kind of darkness and this lone wolf mentality. Frank looks at that clearly as what it is: that\u2019s absolutely no place to live. He doesn\u2019t want to go to the places that [Frank has] gone, and he doesn\u2019t want this guy to go feel the things that he feels. This is not something ever to emulate. He sees himself as a cautionary tale.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n

\n
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\n\t\tYou\u2019ve known Tom for more than a decade. What was it like to shoot those scenes for \u201cThe Odyssey,\u201d where you also have a bit of a mentor-mentee relationship, and then come onto this set and play a similar dynamic?\t<\/h5>\n

\n\tIt\u2019s been truly magical to do two films back-to-back with an old friend. The real magic of this business, the real takeaway, is the people that you get to meet along the way. I got to know Tom as a 17-year-old kid, almost 13 years ago. I\u2019d never seen anything like his drive and determination to get [Spider-Man]. The belief that he had it himself. I loved being a part of that.<\/p>\n

\n\tOver the years, to see how he\u2019s grown as a movie star and an international celebrity, but then to be able to walk on set of this thing that he\u2019s had such a hand in building \u2014 he\u2019s one of the main creative drivers behind this huge [franchise] \u2014 I\u2019m really proud of him. To see him now as a man, to see him in love, to see him so solid, to see him so sturdy, but also to see that the things that I loved about him when I first met him are still totally present. He\u2019s a family-first guy. He\u2019s kind to everybody. He\u2019s patient. He\u2019s courteous. He\u2019s unbelievably hardworking and diligent. I really love him. It was a great experience for me to see how far he\u2019s come and that he\u2019s become this unbelievable man, but to also see that he hasn\u2019t changed.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n

\n
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\n\t\tTo your point about people who you\u2019ve gotten to continue this journey with: your \u201cThe Bear\u201d co-star Liza Colon-Zayas is also in \u201cBrand New Day.\u201d What was it like to have her as a part of the Spider-Man universe?\t<\/h5>\n

\n\tShe\u2019s great and \u201cThe Bear\u201d has been such a gift for me. I have so much trust in Chris Storer \u2014 he\u2019s singular as a TV creator \u2014 so, to come back and have that episode with Liza [Season 3\u2019s \u201cNapkins\u201d], that was such a cool gift. It was great seeing her in London, and I\u2019m really happy that she gets to be part of this.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n

\n
\n
\n\t\tSpeaking of \u201cThe Bear,\u201d we have to talk about the surprise episode: \u201cGary.\u201d As a creative, what has it opened for you to be able to get into the weeds with these characters \u2014 from Michael Berzatto in the \u201cBear\u201d to \u201cPunisher: One Last Kill,\u201d and your upcoming series, \u201cThe Bottoms\u201d (in development at FX)?\t<\/h5>\n

\n\tLook, I love it. Being an actor and trying to live as an artist has really saved my life. Beyond my family, it\u2019s the single most important thing to me. I\u2019ve been able to grow and explore things as an actor that I\u2019m just so enormously grateful for, and made me a better father, a better husband, a better friend, a better human. I\u2019m so grateful that I\u2019ve found this other thing that I love. I get such joy from it, such satisfaction.<\/p>\n

\n\tI can\u2019t really begin to say how much it says about Chris that he gave us this episode to write. To have a show that\u2019s, one, so successful and two, so deeply personal and sacred to him, but to also to treat it with such confidence and such sturdiness to not only allow but to demand the other creatives who are a part of it to collaborate fully and to bring every inch of themselves and their own creativity and their own ideas to it, think nothing real shows genius in an auteur quite like that. It\u2019s the thing that I find uniform among all the greats that I\u2019ve worked with. They demand collaboration. The best idea wins. They\u2019re not ruled by their egos. Chris is just one of a kind. I\u2019m so grateful for this opportunity for me and my dear friend Ebon to explore these characters deeper. The amount of trust in us is so beautiful, and we really did not want to let him down.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n

\n
\n
\n\t\tWhile you were doing all these different jobs, \u201cThe Bear\u201d aired its series finale. How did you commemorate the show? And celebrate the Season 4 Emmy nominations?\t<\/h5>\n

\n\tI got to be on stage with Ebon every single night on Broadway while it was slowing down, and I think I actually watched the season even before he did. It\u2019s such an interesting process for me, unlike anything else that I\u2019ve ever done before, because I\u2019m really not there very much. I\u2019m talked about, and I sort of drop in, but first and foremost, I\u2019m a fan.<\/p>\n

\n\tReally, it was this gift that came out of absolutely nowhere, and it just continued to open me up and challenge me as an artist and provide these unbelievable opportunities. The thing that I love most is I don\u2019t read the script. I don\u2019t know what\u2019s going to happen. I get to watch with everyone else, in this unique position of lingering behind the scenes and in the hearts and imaginations of the people on screen. I honestly thought that this season was the best season, and it was such a beautiful and bold way to end the show. To celebrate what makes a show like this \u2014 real collaboration, real joy, real family, falling down and getting back up. It was just such a beautiful ending, such a beautiful season.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n

\n
\n
\n\t\t\u201cBrand New Day\u201d is hopefully not going to be the end for Frank Castle. Do you think we\u2019re going to see more R-rated or PG-13 Punisher going forward? Is he going to team up with the Defenders in \u201cDaredevil: Born Again\u201d Season 3? What do you want to see next for him?\t<\/h5>\n

\n\tThe great thing about what we get to do is you never know what\u2019s going to come next, and that\u2019s something that I come to really embrace and love and celebrate. I don\u2019t know what the next story is with Frank, but I know it\u2019s out there. I think there\u2019s a little bit of Frank Castle in all of us. It\u2019s been such a gift to be able to explore the darkness that is Frank and his life and his struggle and his mission. I\u2019m really eager and excited to keep going with Frank and to see what\u2019s next. But honestly, I don\u2019t know what that is, and I\u2019m still excited to find out.<\/p>\n

Read more Brent Lang Named Editor-in-Chief of IndieWire<\/a><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

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